Comments for Willing Executioners: America's Bipartisan Atrocity Deepens in Somalia at http://www.chris-floyd.com , comment 1 to 20 out of 20 comments http://www.chris-floyd.com Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:44:45 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-8779 I have been reading everyones thought on this. I will say reading Omar and Abdi's comments are just as useles as any Lazy, Somali men in Somalia. This is what I have been puting up with my entire life and it is about time that the Somali males step a side and hand over the country to Women. We will achieve what you were never able to. I'm not Bitter, Just saying like it is. Don't be surprised by these men, they are just the result of Decolonizing the mind. Ciao - Faiza Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:52:16 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7851 Mr. Abdi, what about the bbc article you posted above? It is irrelevant to the subject. Why are you trying so hard to portray Somali conflict just internal clanish war! I am Somali myself, and I don't belong to either clan you mentioned, but I despise what foriegners (America & Ethiopia) are doing to my people. Condemning human rights voilation is universal, you can't pick and choose the victim. To you everything happens in Somalia have clan dimension, but to the objective observer victim is victim, it doesn't matter what race, religion, clan he/she belongs to. To chris please ignore these kind of critics. We encounter them everyday within our community. We are in primitive cycle of human development. Cheers - Hussein Thu, 15 May 2008 21:03:29 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7824 may 13th [i]media lens[/i] alert focusing on the role of the media in shielding the u.s. and allies from responsbility for their roles in the conflict [url=http://www.medialens.org/ alerts/index.php] SOMALIA - HIDDEN CATASTROPHE HIDDEN AGENDA[/url] "Ask the following journalists why they are not doing more to expose Western responsibility for the catastrophe in Somalia..." http://www.medialens.org/alerts/index.php - b real Tue, 13 May 2008 15:23:55 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7821 Dear Omar, My apologies for misunderstanding your point. I certainly agree with you about the corporate media's pernicious obsession with a false "balance," which, as you say, would equate the actions of Nazi occupiers with those resisting them, etc. I think that's a poisonous and ignorant thing -- which is probably why I reacted so testily when I thought I was being accused of it! Again, my apologies. - chris Tue, 13 May 2008 08:43:42 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7819 recommended -- latest analysis from michael weinstein [url=http://www.garoweonline.com/artman2/publish/Analysis/ The_Situation_in_Somalia_Two_ Sound_Assessments.shtml] The Situation in Somalia: Two Sound Assessments[/url] http://www.garoweonline.com/ artman2/publish/Analysis/ The_Situation_in_Somalia_T wo_Sound_Assessments.shtml - b real Tue, 13 May 2008 05:11:44 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7791 Ok, I tried to post a response soon after Chris responded to my earlier post but for some reason it didn't go though, perhaps I didn't log in or something. So here it is again. Dear Chris! I apologize for not making myself clear in the first post. I was NOT refering to you when I mentioned the crazy obsession. I was refering to the reporting as done in the christian science monitor etc. (although I admit it's generally a decent paper, but.. this crazy obsession with balance). Let's just say it was a botched attempt at media critique. I'm a fan of your wonderful work and please do keep it up. And again, I apologize for not making my point clearer in the earlier post. And no, I don't consider myself any sort of angel or on the side of any angels. My only point was that there is not equivalancy in crimes perperated by the main oppressors vis a vis the resistance (Although we should condemn them all, while keeping the context and the proportion in mind). Here's to hoping that the slamming will stop now... :) Cheers Omar - Omar328 Sat, 10 May 2008 07:42:35 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7779 Abdi and Omar aren't exactly doing the best possible job that CIA money can buy. What gives? Why are they so inept at defending the stooges of the Bush-Cheney Crime Syndicate? Abdi says Mr Floyd's response "speaks volumes" about some nonsense or other. No, Abdi. The response says what it says. Whatever you choose to read into it, and/or distort and thereafter restate for your own propagandist purposes, that's your business. Please don't try to convince us readers that your twisted, polluted and shaded version of Mr Floyd's essay and other writings are what control here. His words control. Their exact wording. Not your reinterpretation or revisions thereof. - Evan Rhood Fri, 09 May 2008 16:12:37 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7777 Dear Chris, Your last response to my comment speaks volumes about you. I never said my clan members in somalia never committed any crimes. i never said TFG and ethiopia did not commit crimes. i said the Amnesty report that claims that TFG/Ethiopia is more guilty of crimes is deeply false. That is all i said. Amnesty's report only showed from which clan amnesty received its "facts" By now, I am sure you know about the propaganda war in early 2007 when pro-ICU forces started claiming Ethiopians raped Somali women in Mogadishu, even before Ethiopians entered Mogadishu. The sad reality is Somalia has remained government-less for reasons of clan politics and the institutions that perpetuate the division and hate between the clans, like polarized online/radio media; clan-based organizations and "human rights groups" and others owned by a clan only. If you don't know all these about my country, there is nothing i can do to help you. The rubberstamp reaction to amnesty's report harms Amnesty in the longterm among other somali clans. It is natural for anti-TFG and Ayr clan who dominate the urban Mogadishu to use propaganda as a means of battle against TFG/Ethiopia. If you are going to emotionally and indiscriminately interpret these facts i told you by throwing words at me that i said TFG and my clan is not responsible for crimes, then there is little hope for contructive discussion with you Chris. Last thing, remember when i told you that the ICU will use Amnesty's report of TFG/Ethiopia "human rights abuses" to reject Peace Talks in Djibouti?? Well, just read this Chris: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7392031.stm Thanks to Amnesty, the misery of our people will continue due to the insurgency/counter-insurgency endess violence since ICU will continue its war on us. - Abdi Fri, 09 May 2008 15:46:15 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7762 chris/rich - heads up, in case rich wasn't aware of it, but i've noticed more than once that full url's embedded in the comments are occasionally getting stripped to the point where they're no longer helpful. e.g., the links in my comment up top are now reduced to the root when they originally included the full path to the cited file. the very first link was http://www.shabelle.net/english/2008/05/07/islamists-arrive-somali-town-starting-operations but now everything after ".net" is truncated. i am not sure at what point this happened, though the full link was there when i posted a comment. otherwise, keep up the great work! - b real Thu, 08 May 2008 15:07:43 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7758 It goes back to what I've been saying for months, now: There is no nonviolent alternative to government by the fascist regime that holds Washington, D.C., in its grip. Money selects the candidates, money pays for the political campaigns, money fattens the offshore bank accounts, money has things entirely its own way in these United States. Our government has forsaken the rule of law. Those who will not impeach George Bush will not intervene to save Somali women and babies from systematic butchery, rape and starvation -- nor will they intervene to save you and me from torture and/or assassination by police here stateside when, by and by, we come to that pass. I'm too old and too fat and too sick to make a fight. It's up to younger, better men than me. You, perhaps? All I know for sure is that things won't change in Washington as long as the fascists have got hold of the reins, and there is no solution in politics. - jimmythem Thu, 08 May 2008 14:32:00 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7756 Well said Chris. By the way according to the Independent: b]"Amnesty Calls for inquiry into US role in Somalia"[[/b] By Steve Bloomfield in Nairobi Wednesday, 7 May 2008 Amnesty International has called for the role of the United States in Somalia to be investigated, following publication of a report accusing its allies of committing war crimes. The human rights group yesterday listed abuses carried out by Ethiopian and Somali government forces, and some committed by al-Shabaab, an anti-government militia which the US designated a terrorist group. According to the report, based on the testimonies of refugees who have fled Somalia's capital, Mogadishu, in recent weeks, Ethiopian troops have killed civilians by slitting their throats. Ethiopian and Somali forces were also accused of gang-raping women and attacking children. A refugee, named Haboon, accuses Ethiopian troops of raping a neighbour's 17-year-old daughter. When the girl's brothers – aged 13 and 14 – tried to help her, Ethiopian soldiers gouged out their eyes with a bayonet. The Ethiopian government last night issued a statement strongly rejecting the Amnesty allegations and criticising the organisation's "uncritical use of sources." Amnesty called for an international commission of inquiry into allegations of war crimes and said the role of other countries that have given military and financial support to perpetrators should also be investigated. US troops trained Ethiopian forces involved in military operations in Somalia, and the US government supplied military equipment to the Ethiopian military. "There are major countries that have significant influence," said Amnesty's Dave Copeman. "The US, EU and European countries need to exert that influence to stop these attacks." After attacks by Ethiopian and Somali forces on civilian areas in Mogadishu last year, European lawyers considered whether funding for Ethiopia and Somalia made the EU complicit. The results of their deliberations were never made public. The Amnesty report detailed a pattern of attacks. Refugees who fled the violence said al-Shabaab would launch an attack from a residential area. Ethiopian troops would respond with a security sweep, often going from door-to-door attacking civilians. Those who did not flee faced further reprisals. Increased military activity has turned Mogadishu into a ghost town. About 700,000 people have fled – out of a population of up to 1.5 million. The UN estimates that 2.6 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance – more than one quarter of the population. Peace talks between the Somali government and the main opposition alliance are scheduled to begin later this month. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/call-for-inquiry-into-us-role-in-somalia-822166.html - David Sketchley Thu, 08 May 2008 13:08:22 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7754 I don't have a "crazy obsession" with balance. To say that atrocities -- crimes, evil deeds, call them what you will -- have been committed by people fighting in the name of all factions (not to mention the criminal gangs) is not to EQUATE the actions of all parties, or lessen the culpability of those responsible for the preponderance of the crimes. I'd like to think that this kind of very simple nuance is not beyond most readers of this blog. But yes, by all means, pick out one phrase from almost 3,000 words of text -- 98 percent of which is devoted to the American-backed crimes of Ethiopian and TFG forces -- and hammer away all you like, if that's what floats your boat. Maybe you should get together with Abdi up there. Both of you obviously feel that you are on the side of the angels, whose partisans can do no wrong. Me, I'm more concerned with the brutal actions of human beings and the malign effects of these actions on other human beings. There are no angels on my "side," which is simply the "side" of our common humanity, in all its flaws, its evil and its suffering. In Somalia, as I have stated repeatedly, the overwhelming responsiblity for the horror there lies with the invaders, their collaborators -- and their godfather back in Washington. No one who has read any of the dozens of pieces I've written about Somalia since 2006, including the one above, could possibly think otherwise, if they have read them with an open mind. No one who has read any of them could possibly think I have sought some kind of false "balance" in them. But credible evidence has been offered that some people have suffered from the actions of those opposing the TFG/Ethiopia/Bush forces. Am I not supposed to even mention that? Do you suggest that we all, like Abdi, simply dismiss Amnesty reports that we don't like? Is the presence of a single mention of suffering other than that caused by the invaders and their allies not to be allowed? Is the post above really tantamount to asserting a ludicrous moral equivalence between the French Resistance and the Nazi occupiers? Again, I put this stuff out in public and people are free to make of it what they please. That's fine. But God almighty, this kind of hair-splitting does get tedious sometimes. "You said something I didn't agree with! You must be a Nazi apologist/Islamofascist/commie traitor/left gatekeeper/Zionist tool!" Meanwhile, the war machine rolls merrily on. - chris Thu, 08 May 2008 09:16:29 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7753 I don't understand this crazy obsession with "balance". You know 'all sides are committing atrocities'. So the insugents aren't sticking with the geneva convention. Atleast those fanatical 'islamist' extremishtz aren't raping any women, aren't gouging out eyes and rounding up civilians for slaughter. Next up... "All sides committed atrocities during the nazi occupation of France". See? we're balanced! - Omar328 Thu, 08 May 2008 05:06:10 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7752 So according to you, "Somali clan politics" means that members of one clan will tell outrageous lies in order to demonize an opposing clan. Thus by your own logic, how are we to know that you are not telling outrageous lies in order to demonize opponents of your clan? But I'm sure you're right. I'm sure all of those refugees pouring into the camps actually burned down their own houses, killed their own family members, raped and dipossessed themselves just to make the TFG, Ethiopia and George Bush look bad. Just as the Jews kept running headlong into those gas chambers to make the Nazis look bad. And just as the Palestinians keep cutting off their own electricity, giving away their land and killing their own civilians in order to make Israel look bad. And yes, I am sure that the TFG/Ethiopian forces are unique in the entire history of human warfare, and have never committed a single atrocity. Thank you for your illuminating lesson on Somali clan politics. Now we can ignore all those dead, dispossessed and starving people -- of every clan -- who are suffering from atrocities -- committed by every side -- and get back to "American Idol" and the latest Judd Apatow laff-riot. - chris Wed, 07 May 2008 23:21:45 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7751 These are all allegations as usual. Don't expect many people to take it seriously?? If you don't understand somali clan politics, you will end up with more conspiracy articles like this one because more and more Habar Gidir "witnesses" will feed amnesty allegations. I am from the Abgaal sub-clan of Hawiye and most of us support the TFG forces. Meanwhile the Habar Gidir (Especially ayr) support the Al shabaab. The 3 weapons Alshabaab has against us right now is suicide bomb attacks, IEDs and Amnesty International. almost all witnesses cited by Amnesty are from Habar Gidir in Mogadishu. So you have to ask, do you expect Alshabaab supporters to demonize TFG and Ethiopia or do you expect them to fabricate events against our clan and TFG/Ethiopia?? That is the question. Anyway, Amnesty publicizing Habar Gidir allegations as true was expected but they did it in a terrible time when peace talks are approaching. We are sure Alshabaab will use Amnesty's words or "human rights abuse" by TFG/Ethiopia to end the peace talks. - Abdi Wed, 07 May 2008 21:39:53 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7750 Thanks very much for covering the Somali situation; hadn't seen anything about it on other sites I read regularly. I'll be linking to your article on my blog. - halflotus Wed, 07 May 2008 19:52:57 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7749 examples of perception mgmt in [i]the christian science monitor[/i]'s [url=http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0507/p99s01-duts.html]coverage on the AI rpt[/url] in a general news media roundup on somalia. this is from the second paragraph in their article: [quote]..an Amnesty International Report released Tuesday alleged that Islamist militants, as well as US-backed Ethiopian and Somali government troops, are committing widespread atrocities against civilians in the capital, Mogadishu.[/quote] the fourth section of the AI report is entitled "Violations by TFG and Ethiopian Forces and Abuses by Non-State Actors", which leads off w/ the sentence : [quote]Amnesty International established patterns of violations of human rights and international humanitarian law including rape and unlawful killings of civilians in neighbourhoods of Mogadishu by all parties to the conflict in Somalia, [b]most notably TFG and Ethiopian forces.[/b][/quote] there is no section of the report dedicated to violations by "Islamist militants." as the rpt makes very clear, the brunt of the atrocities are placed squarely in the TFG/ethiopia camp. the CSM had to search hard to pull out the reference, unquoted, for that sentence in the lead to their story. buried in the background section, it states: [quote]Clan militias, remnants of the former ICU, Shabab militia, and armed bandits, as well as TFG and Ethiopian security forces, have all perpetrated abuses against civilians.[/quote] the CSM, by framing their lead in this manner, spin the actual patterns established by the rpt. it's not until twelve paragraphs later that the article attempts to balance this slant, but then immediately gives voice to one of the most egregiously mendacious regimes around: [quote]Meanwhile, the BBC reports that human rights group Amnesty International is saying civilians in Somalia are "completely at the mercy of armed groups" who are targeting them for atrocities. The report blames all sides – Somalian government troops, their US-trained Ethiopian allies, and Islamic insurgents – for being "out of control." But Ethiopian troops are singled out for committing especially grisly acts. The Ethiopian government has denied the charges and demanded an apology, reports the BBC. [/quote] the rest of the CSM article is no better. of a story in the independent uk, they write: [quote]It gave further details on the Amnesty report, which described a pattern of violence. Al-Shabaab – an Islamic insurgent group which the US has designated a terrorist group – [b]has launched attacks on residential areas[/b]. The Ethiopian troops then respond with a security sweep, with door-to-door checks in which civilians are often attacked again. Some 700,000 civilians have fled such violence.[/quote] the resistance has not launched attacks [i]on[/i] residential areas - they have launched attacks on the occupiers [i]from[/i] residential areas. there is so much misleading information & outright falsehoods in this CSM article, it's very very hard to believe that it's not intentional. don't they have fact-checkers, or does the fact that they're selectively reporting on what other media outlets have reported absolve them from any responsibility for making sure their readers aren't getting hoodwinked? - b real Wed, 07 May 2008 19:48:21 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7748 You'll notice that the news coming out of Somalia doesn't mention the African Union so-called "peacekeepers", who are, by the way high school age Ugandans. - nur al-cubicle Wed, 07 May 2008 18:13:17 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7747 Chris - excellent article! I had read the short Independent article on the Amnesty report and noticed that the US wasn't mentioned at all. I couldn't tell if it was the newspaper or Amnesty doing that - thanks for clearing that bit up. I always find it interesting that Amnesty (and Human Rights Watch, et al) often pull their punches when it comes to clarifying the involvement of the US or UK in these god-awful murders. So that when you read their reports (or executive summary in the newspapers) all these things seem so far away. It's just those crazy black or brown people killing each other again. The context of the murder is stripped away, so that it seems almost like scarry story to tell the childern. Those Somalis and Ethiopians are just evil. But aren't we the most blood thirsty of them all? And worse, we blame it all on the others. Rev. Wright was on to something - God Damn America. - American Ex-Pat In London Wed, 07 May 2008 16:42:23 +0100 http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/135/#comment-7746 story wednesday at shabelle media [url=http://www.shabelle.net/ english/2008/05/07/ islamists-arrive-somali-town -starting-operations]Islamists arrive Somali town, starting operations[/url] [quote]After the Ethiopian troops recently based in Jowhar town pulled out from there a heavily armed fighters from the Islamic courts union have entered jowhar town 90km north of Mogadishu where they started security patrol on Tuesday night - residents said. Armed with vehicles the fighters have begun house-to-house search operations in area in/surrounding Jowhar town to [pursue] illicit-groups those the residents have expressed concern. The Islamists are reportedly wanted to hunt down gang groups in the town those make robbery acts in the town. ... The residents in the township have hailed the arrival of the Islamic courts fighters. ... On April 27, al-Shabaab briefly took over the town of Jowhar for the third time in a single month. The group’s leaders told rallies that the fighters had not come to impose their rule, but were responding to the invitation of the local people. In 2006, the ICU preached a similar message when they ran over town after town across southern and central Somalia. The ICU leaders said they had been invited to the villages, districts and regions and promised to deal with criminals terrorizing the people of the areas. But instead of occupying Jowhar this time, the forces withdrew before the arrival of Ethiopian and TFG forces. Reports say eight towns in districts like Bu’ale, Qansah Dhere and Ufurow Bay and Middle Juba have fallen into the hands of Islamists. These are now under control of the young fighters after TFG administrators abandoned their posts before al-Shabaab arrived.[/quote] similar to what took place in 2006 as the communities united behind the ICU to tackle the bandits, warlords, etc. maybe the amnesty international rpt, however incomplete or 'just scratching the surface' it is, will help to stir some real int'l outrage and spur substantive condemnation & prosecution of those perpetuating these crimes against the somali people. up to this point, the global reaction has largely been shaped by a false narrative of who the terrorists are, as captured in this [url=http://www.runcartoon.com /NOV_19_2007.htm]concise political cartoon[/url] by amin amir - b real Wed, 07 May 2008 16:16:46 +0100