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05

Sep

2008

Surge Protectors: Obama Embraces Bush-McCain Spin on Iraq
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Written by Chris Floyd   
Barack Obama has now declared -- on Fox News, no less -- that George W. Bush's escalation of the flagrant war crime in Iraq has "succeeded beyond our wildest dreams." He also proclaimed his "absolute" belief in the "War on Terror," and pledged, once again, "never to take a military option off the table" (not even the nuclear option) against the "major threat" of Iran.

In short, he continued his relentless campaign to purge himself of any of that weak-sister "anti-war" taint that got attached to him in the early days of his campaign -- which was, of course, responsible for his phenomenal rise in the first place. He rode that wave to national prominence -- trading on the desperate hopes of millions of Americans that the ungodly criminal nightmare in Iraq might finally end -- but it was obvious long ago that he was never going to dance with the ones that brung him. Once it was clear that he might really make it all the way to the top of the greasy pole, he began a dogged campaign to prove to our ruling elite that he would be a "safe pair of hands" for the imperial enterprise.

We've seen this in, among other things, the shameful FISA vote, the bellicose threats to launch incursions into Pakistan (a policy which the Bush Administration is already implementing, with the usual deadly results for civilians), the ritual and repeated assertions of his willingness to attack Iran, and the foolhardy promise to shepherd Georgia's entry into NATO -- a mirror-image of Dick Cheney's stance, and a policy guaranteed to ratchet up tensions with Russia and quite possibly spark not only a new Cold War but a hot war of horrendous proportions if Georgia pulls its future NATO treaty partners into another conflict with Moscow.

But it is Obama's surrender on the Iraq War front -- or rather, the anti-Iraq War front -- that is most striking, and most disheartening. On the very night that John McCain was putting the "success" of the surge at the center of his campaign, Obama was openly, cravenly laying down one of his chief weapons at the feet of Bill O'Reilly. Obama's cheerleading for the surge -- "beyond our wildest dreams!" -- surpassed anything that McCain himself has claimed for the escalation.

Obama also emphasized the obscene and morally depraved position that has become the Democrat's standard line on Iraq: that the lazy, no-good Iraqis "still haven't taken responsibility" for running "their own country." The arrogance and inhumanity of this position is staggering, almost indescribable. The United States of America invaded Iraq, destroyed its society, slaughtered its citizens, drove millions from their homes, occupied the country and made itself the ultimate master and arbiter of the conquered land -- but still the Iraqis are condemned for "not taking responsibility for their own country."

Not a single Iraqi attacked America. Not one. America's action has killed more than a million Iraqis. But it is the Iraqis who are now "responsible."

Not only has Obama validated McCain's position on the surge, but his and the Democrats' stance on the Iraqis' "responsibility" also completely buys into the Bush Faction's lie that the "government" of Iraq -- installed at the point of foreign guns, with a "constitution" based upon the arbitrary directives of an occupying power -- is somehow legitimate. This stance too validates the "success" of the entire war: "Hey, they've got a legitimate government there now, so they need to take responsibility for their own country."

This bears repeating: the Democrats' position on Iraq fully accepts -- and even celebrates -- the Bush Administration's fundamental claims for the war. The war has established a legitimate, democratic government in Iraq, Bush and the Democrats both say. The "surge" has succeeded "beyond our wildest dreams" in "securing" Iraq, Bush and the Democrats both say. When "conditions on the ground" are right, America should withdraw its "combat troops" from Iraq, leaving behind an unspecified number of troops for training Iraqi security forces, conducting counterterrorism operations and providing security for other American personnel and reconstruction projects, Bush and the Democrats both say.

Where then is the actual difference -- the evidence for genuine "change" -- between these two positions? While the Democrats will occasionally assert that instigating the war was a "mistake" -- because we should have been fighting more wars elsewhere -- they steadfastly refuse to denounce it as an illegitimate and criminal action. And, as we have seen, they agree almost entirely with Bush on the results that the war has produced. The rhetoric is different, of course, and each side denounces the other in the usual partisan bickering -- but the fundamental agreement is undeniable.

And now Obama has made it explicit: a success "beyond our wildest dreams."

II.
But let's put the disturbing implications of Obama's stance aside for a moment, and deal with the facts of his statement. Is the surge really a "success"?

Well, yes, it is. The "surge" -- which in addition to an influx of troops included the ruthless ethnic cleansing of Baghdad, the walled ghettoization of vast swathes of the city, and the arming and funding of violent sectarian militias across the land -- certainly succeeded in extending the duration of the murder, suffering and chaos engendered by America's armed and belligerent presence in Iraq. 

So it is indeed a great "success" ...  in the same way that, say, Albert Speer's miraculous efforts to keep the Nazi war machine going from 1943 to 1945 -- resulting in the deaths of millions of people, including the worst ravages of the Holocaust -- was a "success."

(Continued after the jump.)

This is what Obama is celebrating when he lauds the "wild" success of the "surge": the extension and entrenchment of war he ostensibly opposes.

But is the surge a "success" on its own public terms, in the way that it is portrayed almost universally now in the media: a bold campaign that has brought peace and security to Iraq? Of course not. As Juan Cole points out below, the "surge" (and several other major factors unrelated to the U.S troop escalation, not least of which is Iran's intervention to tamp down Shiite insurgency and bolster the allies it shares with Bush in the Baghdad government) merely reduced the amount of violence in Iraq from that of an unspeakable hell on earth to the level of some of the very worst sectarian conflicts of the last century. As Cole noted a few days ago (see original for links):

AP reports that Baghdad is still very dangerous despite lowered death tolls from political violence:

"Small scale bombings and shootings persist in the capital — each a reminder that the war is not over and that Baghdad remains a place where no trip is routine and residents are still guided by precautions. Most won't drive at night. Many try to avoid heavily clogged streets, remembering that suicide bombers and other attackers intent on killing large numbers of civilians favor traffic jams or congested areas . . . [in August] at least 360 civilians were killed and more than 470 wounded in violence throughout the country, according to an Associated Press count."

That would be 4,320 civilians killed in political violence every year if the level stayed that low. (I take it this number excludes killed 'insurgents' and Iraqi security forces, so that actual number of war-related deaths would be much higher annually.)

It is estimated that 75,000 persons have died in the civil war in Sri Lanka since 1982, or 2800 a year.

Iraq is higher, just with regard to civilian casualties.

The Kashmir conflict is estimated to have killed 70,000 persons since 1988, or about 3500 a year.

Iraq is higher.

In the Lebanon Civil War of 1975-1990, it is estimated that at least 100,000 persons were killed, 75,000 civilians and 25,000 military.

If we extrapolated out Iraq's August death rate for civilians over 15 years, that would be 64,000 or not far from the toll in Lebanon's war.

Let me repeat: The level of violence at this moment in Iraq is similar to what prevailed on average during one of the 20th century's worst ethnic civil wars! It is still higher than the casualty rates in Sri Lanka and Kashmir, two of the worst ongoing conflicts in the world.

Only in an Orwellian society could our press declare the relative decline in monthly death tolls in Iraq to constitute "calm" in an absolute sense.

And that is if the August levels are taken as the baseline and if the numbers continue to be that low. If we averaged deaths during the previous 12 months, the baseline would be much higher.

The current Iraq Civil War is one of the world's most deadly continuing conflicts, worse than Sri Lanka and Kashmir and on a par with the 15-year long Lebanon Civil War!

This is the "success" that exceeds all dreams, according to the Democratic candidate for President of the United States -- the voice, you'll recall, of hope and change.

But there is no hope in Obama's stance on Iraq today, which does not differ in any fundamental way from that of George W. Bush or John McCain. And given the Democrats' agreement on every front with Republican positions -- on Iraq, Iran, Russia, the War on Terror, authoritarianism, offshore drilling, etc., etc., etc. -- there will be no change come November either.

Comments (32)add comment

The Reality Kid said:

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For what it's worth
I agree with you. I'm not an American and, when it comes to my interest in U.S. politics, I'm a "one-trick pony", namely, my interest is generally restricted to U.S. foreign policy, and in particular, the so-called "war" on "terror". But your observations completely jive with my own. However, I can admit , that for a brief period, I actually held out hope that Obama would be different.

That hope died with L'affaire Wright (and most especially when I read Obama's remarks in finally distancing himself from Wright).

Whatever else may "change", it won't be U.S. foreign policy or, forgive me for putting it this way, war-mongering.

I suppose I was naive to ever think otherwise, but innocence dies hard.
September 05, 2008

Michael Hureaux said:

1663
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The ideologues of the moment, of course, will argue that, despite the mass carnage, hundreds of thousands forced into exile, and infrastructural disintegration that has come as a result of this war, that the cost, borne largely by a non-white and impoverished population on the other side of the world, was a sacrifice worth making. We are already being told that the cost is far less than the cost the continued regime of Hussein would have brought to be. The argument, which is unsubstantiated by any living fact, is repeated endlessly as though it actually made sense. But then, since pre-emptive war is from the very start nothing but a rationale for massive war crime, it only stands to reason that its continuance is rooted in speculative mythology.

The Bible's Book of Proverbs somewhere castigates the priests, politicos and princes who exult in the destruction of those who did them no offense, and suggests that a very special hell would be visited upon them by the God of Israel whose will they claim their actions are guided by. And, if the 20th century was about anything beyond its technical prowess, it certainly was a period in which the predictions of the poet Ruben Dario bore fruit. Dario said that the victory of empire as manifested in the Spanish American War would see, in its wake, the drunken vengeance of the poor. The largest tragedy of our day, I think, is that we are now led everywhere by people whose technilogical grasp is exceeded only by their arrogance and stupidity. If this is the "best and brightest" rising to the fore as a result of the hegemony of the "free marketplace", we're going to have to do a hell of a lot better than this.
September 05, 2008

mounir el-debs said:

0
what else
had he been different,he would not have been there...
"freedom" in america today,means you have to be able to practice the mamboo
dance,as they say,the lower you go ...
the business who invested millions in this unknown political entity,are being rewarded.no investment could match the returns they got.the choice for americans is between a novice,and a senile!!!
the american revolution,is standing on its head.the door is open to anybody to become a president.one must admitt that the heirs of jfk,went skiing on the slopes of mediocrity.
the american peopole,have surrendered their sovereign rights of choice ,to aipac,and al...
today the policies of the usa,is not conducted to serve the interests of americans.the degree of radical anti-americanism,has reached proportions that harbour on unanimity.and the war they are declaring on russia,in both of its facets military,and economic;should reach dimensions beyound reason.
yhe usa has made a choise long before august,on whose side they stand...the military ,and financial assault on russia is a dangerous and unprovoked gamble...bigger than the looming attack on iran.
the american financial structure is under extreme stress.and the way-out,is
neo-conservative seeking more bay of pigs,cambodia,granada...
to carry out these policies,the democrats "chose" not hillary,and republicans "voted" not for ron paul.which in reality,contradicts the opinion of the majority of americans,as to new wars,and retreating from
iraq,and afghanistan."democracy" has been served well.
before its too late,americans wake-up...
September 05, 2008 | url

Steve Meikle said:

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I realized Obama was a whore after his weaseling out of the truths that Pastor Wright spoke some months ago.

He will do anything to get elected, this is the nature of politicians
September 05, 2008

Charles said:

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There is a fundamental difference between the Republican and Democratic Parties. The Republican party markets to its voter base, and the Democratic Party markets to its funding base. Since both parties have to share the wealth of the corporate elites and the super-wealthy, the Democrats end up with no more money than their rivals, and fewer votes besides. Unfortunately for Democrats, the party base is not a bunch of idiots that march lockstep with their leadership like the Republican right.

So Barack applauding the surge is not only evidence of complete and total assent to the war crimes of the Bush Administration, it is stupid politics as well.
September 05, 2008 | url

Debbie(aussie) said:

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I am in complete agreement with 'the reality kid'.
I sometimes wonder if we (humanity) deserve to exist. And that we would be better of if the US and possibly the rest of the west, was destroyed. So very sad and extremely frustrating. My fantasy wish, a virus that will take out all the greedy and selfish.
September 06, 2008

Sharkbabe said:

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Well, at least Hopey won't put Monica Goodling on the Supreme Court.

I do still hope that this whoring is just to get elected. Without which you can't do or not do anything. (Bush did the same pandering in 00 with his "humble" bullshit, which went out the window the moment he took office. Yes, in this case, I do hold him up as an example.) Honesty about the shitmire does NOT sell with the media, period. They are fully invested in the surge narrative, the occupation, and the Holy Cheney Empire. And they are the arbiter. At this stage, were Obama to challenge their narrative, or for that matter their right to keep the populace as ignorant as possible, he'd be savaged and marginalized faster than you can say Kucinich.

My own dream is that he mollifies these rat bastards enough to get in, then on day one of his presidency smashes their monopolies into a thousand pieces.
September 06, 2008

scott douglas said:

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Al Maliki seems to think he's strong enough to stall negotiations over the American presence until it's UN mandate expires in December. It has been the Iranians who have brokered the deals amongst the Shia factions that have allowed the puppet to yank at his strings so. Confronting both the quiescent, semi-institutionalized Sunni insurgency and the Kurds at the same time? Either he's come down with a bad case of the Saakashvili's, or he has chosen sides for the looming USA uber alles extravaganza: After all hell breaks out, 'the success of the surge' issue will become as irrelevant as the hoola-hoop.


They just parked the Mt. Whitney in Poti. That's a command ship. The equipment on that ship is required to coordinate the insertion and administration of NATO strike forces. It is a dramatic escalation of the war of nerves being conducted on Russia's doorstep...


"day 29. I await the Tsar's riposte with my hands clasped rigidly about my gaunt and fearful visage. the men are cheerful, even ecstatic at the prospect of full conflict. I feel unfit in their company. I fear I am quite ill, perhaps fevered in the mind. I dare not reveal the depths of my doubt before the ship's physician, who has taken a new and exaggerated interest in my welfare..."


Remember the Mt. Whitney!

As for Obama - what a groveling, repulsive display. That should help elect 'McCain and Mrs. Mayor.' Chris has patiently explained to me that The Plutocracy bought the democrats and has been fixing these 'contests,' long time passing. But I am still shocked. Has the man no self respect? None? Bill O'Reilly?!!


September 06, 2008 | url

dcnataro said:

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Change will not occur until all the myths and fantasies have been destroyed. The American Empire will have to be played out to its bitter end.

What we are seeing is an example of the perils of "success". VICTORY (especially in WWII) turned the US into a megalomaniac spoiled child -
one with immense firepower.

It is fitting that Bush rose to the highest office in the land. It is fitting that McShame and Palin are to do so also. Rotten children, every one of 'em.
September 06, 2008

Sheila S Hamlett Waller said:

1286
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This also demonstrates that Obama will not prosecute the war criminals, since the Iraq warcrime was probably "bad policy", not deliberate lying and genocide for profit. Now, it seems, he's spinning away from even "bad policy" to define the atrocity. Looks like if elected, we'll get the "It's time to move on for the sake of healing/unity/the nation/whatever" mantra, as the monsters slip off to Paraguay, or even better, assume key posts in the new government, so that we can benefit from their 'wisdom and experience". We can't call this "betrayal", since it was part of the plan from the beginning. This is just the final seal on the contract. No need to steal the election out from under him now.
And the wild dance to destruction continues unabated.

September 06, 2008

Marc Cherbonnier said:

681
Inherited Clinton staffers are making th
Obama's natural instincts appear to now be overwhelmed by aides. Tired from the endless campaign, Obama is following their guidance for a winning strategy, but he would be better off if he fired them.

At least I hope that's his excuse.

If McCain wins, I need help to decide where to immigrate. We will all need to be far far away from neocon "America".
September 06, 2008 | url

Michael Hureaux said:

1663
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Oh, please, cherbonnier, don't let this man off the hook. He knows full well what he's doing. What makes any of us think that a man who is willing to feed a public ideology which accepts mass death as a price for "higher civilization" is worthy of the kind of power Obama wants? Didn't we, with the collapse of the stalinist apparatus, at last recognize that ideology in the service of a criminal state machine is mass pathology? Why are so many of us in this country buying into this new wave of horse manure?
Because many "liberals" believe in the face of empire, disintegrating environment and imploding economy, that our skins alone are worthy of salvation.

Well, I say if Obama loses this election, so it goes. If he embraces the criminal practice of this state machine, it's better that he loses. Assuming he actually is what many call a "progresssive"- which I doubt now more than ever before- what in the hell is going on in the thinking of "progressives" that it is acceptable to associate progressive politics with gangster government, if it isn't the sort of mass pathology I and many others believe we smell on his candidacy?

I say if this is the best the "democrats" can do, let McCain win. It seems to me that people who believe autocratic government is acceptable when prescribed for others ought to get a good dose of it ourselves.
September 06, 2008

blue ox babe said:

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Anyone who thinks Obama is being dragged along here by others, or is doing ANYthing but what HE WANTS TO DO, is deluded by naive fantasy.

This is the true Barack Obama -- a man who is a puppet, willfully so, for the sake of the national "adulation" (if you would call it that) of being POTUS.

There no longer exists any difference between Republican and Democrat at the Federal level. All are imperialists, all are plutocrats, all are proftieers, cronyists, and unctuous sycophants of big moneyed human and business interests.

Drop your fond memories of the donkeys that were, people, because such remembered individuals no longer are with us -- and probably weren't what you imagined them when they were with us.

Those of you who support Obama as a matter of "practical politics" -- I would ask you this: if you could discard what you consider "practical politics" and vote for the very best person to be the POTUS, whom would you choose?

Do you dare answer that question in a publicly accessible forum? Will you choose someone other than the fraudulent Bill Clinton or Al Gore? The romanticized Camelot of JFK, perhaps? How deep do your fantasies go, how firmly attached to them are you?
September 06, 2008

blue ox babe said:

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cherbonnier writes --

If McCain wins, I need help to decide where to immigrate. We will all need to be far far away from neocon "America".


And your evidence that Obama is not similarly "neocon" is WHAT, exactly?

I love these fantasies... as if life will be really great under Obama, but living hell under McCain. Such fantasies are premised on a fantasy view of Obama, naturally -- they can't be based on Obama's track record, because such stuff indicates Bush allegiance. They can't be based on Obama's funding sources, because that would show no difference from McCain. They can't be based on policy advisors, because Obama's got a gang of hawks who want to continue the "war on Terror".

So what evidence has anyone to show Obama will be better than McCain for anyone who isn't (1) in line to profiteer from connections to Obama; or (2) in line to get a job in the Obama admin?
September 06, 2008

J. Ford said:

0
McCain will win.
McCain is going to win. The DNC and their candidate, Joe Biden, already fear it. Those who don't believe it are left to explain why the Democratic Party and its friends in journalism are shrieking and screaming and tearing their hair and running around in circles over a yahoo ditzbomb like SarraBarracuda. I really can't express my surprise at the mass terror for which SarraBarra's rise to momentary eminence seems responsible. It can only come from people who know they've already got one foot in the grave, politically.
September 06, 2008 | url

Mystic55 said:

0
Oh no!
Bush has used the Patraeus Charm and invoked the magical Surge protection. Now suddenly everything about the Iraq war is just fine because the Surge Worked!

Never mind about lies...because the SURGE WORKED! Never mind about Blackwater, BECAUSE THE SURGE WORKED! Never mind about Osama Bin Ladin...THE SURGED worked.

Oh and Hockey Mask Mom is a Budding serial killer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGPFPBmzRrQ

She likes to shoot wolves in helicopters.
September 06, 2008 | url

Sharkbabe said:

0
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Everybody's still talking here as if President Obama would have the same freedom to run the moth-eaten, rotted, bankrupt empire game as his predecessors.

He won't. There are things called Russia and China, for openers.
September 06, 2008

Nightgaunt said:

0
The False Choice Dilemma--when the choos
Sadly, Obama is just the same Dominionist contents, just Obama is in a better package. Choices of poison anyone? As the title states it is when the choices are made and limited for you so all you have to choose from is between two war mongers not between a warmonger and peacemonger. That is also why all third parties are excluded from the political process. If either of the two allowed parties were treated the same way it would be far harder for them to get elected. We also have one of the most corrupt of election processes too. It can't be trusted to express our will. The Dominionists have worked long and hard since their failure in 1934 to get it right. It is a revolution by the corporate theocrats to win. The safest place away from them is the moon, the USA (or whatever it will be called later) probably won't be going there anytime soon.
September 06, 2008 | url

hv said:

0
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People who automatically assume that the right-wing will always be worse than the more smarter and efficient imperialists, i.e., the Democrats (and even Chris has made this point before by referring to Chomksy's quote about how small changes in power-systems can have large ripples), I make this point: unless you do the much harder work of actually changing the rotten context you are operating in, i.e., a ruthless, greedy, murderous, aggressive empire, you are operating on the right-wing's turf, and are hostage to their narratives and their definitions of success/failure. You cannot expect to elect someone as CEO of the murderous aggressive enterprise that Scamerica is today and then pretend to be shocked and surprised when he gets his hands full of blood. Running the aggressive empire that American is today, with its various "national interests" all over the world, can only be a murderous enterprise. Don't kid yourselves otherwise.

Thus, as the Iraq and Afghanistan occupations deteriorate and possibilities of defeat become even more pressing, it is very likely that Obama and the Democrats will succumb to right-pressure and escalate the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and perhaps even launch other acts of murderous aggression elsewhere such as Pakistan should there be another terrorist attack on America, because they are so terrified of appearing as "weak" on national security.

If you want to see a concrete example of how the right-wing has constantly hounded the more "saner" and "smarter" imperialist into murderous acts of aggression, look back at Vietnam. LBJ continued to escalate the Vietnam war because he was hounded by the American right with their "who lost China to the commies" meme. As a more recent example, look at Israel's barbaric assault and acts of state-terrorism on Lebanese civilians and Lebanese infrastructure in the summer of 2006 as a disproportionate response to Hezbollah's attack on Israeli soldiers. Ehud Olmert and his centrist party were supposed to be the "kinder, gentler" version of the aggressive and Israeli colonialist, apartheid, terrorist state just like Obama and the Democrats are supposed to be the "kinder, gentler, centrist" version of the murderous, aggressive American empire. But Olmert was so terrified of appearing "weak" on national security that he stumbled into a stupid, murderous and ultimately, unwinnable war against Hizbollah. It is quite likely that Ariel Sharon, as much of a murderous thug and professional war-criminal that he is, would have assessed the situation much better and acted in a much more measured way than Ehud Oldert and his "kinder, gentler, centrist" party.

The point is that you should never underestimate the potential for irrational vicious behaviour from politicians/groups operating from a position of weakness.
September 06, 2008

Debbie(aussie) said:

0
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Can some one tell me if the corporate theocrats are just using the religious theocrats or are they a coalition?
As to were to go after the empires collapse, Aus, maybe. If you think we will survive reasonably intact.
September 06, 2008

almostinfamous said:

0
why leave?
If McCain wins, I need help to decide where to immigrate. We will all need to be far far away from neocon "America".

at least you won't be getting firebombed by robot planes while going to your friend's wedding if you stay in america.
September 07, 2008 | url

Donald L. Smith said:

0
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There are many brands of kool-aid out there.
The few Dems still willing to speak to me harbor a "hope" that the real Obama is going to cleanse the temple once he is made POTUS.
This seems as much a fantasy as the gibberish the "right wing" hangs upon with desparate need for absolute truth.
Cited above are many examples of why the very system itself is beyond "reform", and that is the bitter way it is.
Seeing the criminal organization which now bleeds the world to death is a hard task if one needs to cling to the dream of a nation which may have never been a reality at all.
September 07, 2008

DBachmozart said:

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Democrat left just as mindless as Republ
Charles said -- < Unfortunately for Democrats, the party base is not a bunch of idiots that march lockstep with their leadership like the Republican right.>


You've got to be kidding! Every 4 years, the sheep - AKA the "progressive" wing of the Democratic party - line up faithfully behind whatever "lesser evil" center-right mediocrity the DLC chooses, and these "leftists" not only support them, (even if they have to "hold their noses when they vote"), but launch a holy war against those who refuse to play this game, like Nader. The result is that we have a political paradigm of right vs. center-right, and the left is rendered irrelevant. We have no voice for our agenda as long as we cannot and will not break from lesser evilism.

Lesson from history - after the anti slavery movement was treated in similar fashion by the lesser evil of that time, the Whigs, they finally grew a backbone, told the Whigs to go to hell, and formed a new party that would take a principled stand against the extension of slavery - the Republicans. Enough leftists voted for them in 1856 to throw the election to the "greater evil" Democrat Buchanan, but this killed off the Whigs and placed the political struggle on a qualitatively higher ground. By 1860, the forces that opposed slavery - united, confident, and speaking with their own voice, took charge and made history. The Democrats are today's Whigs. They are the single greatest obstacle to the growth of a powerful anti war, anti racist, anti corporate, anti destruction of the planet movement.



September 07, 2008

Marc Cherbonnier said:

681
Europeans don't appreciate the problem o
In the US we can only support a 3rd-party at the risk of then allowing the worser evil (of the big 2) to win the Presidency. Arguably this was what cost Al Gore the 2000 election (if you ignore that he actually did win the popular vote in Florida) because of 90,000 votes cast for Nader (who broke his promise not to compete in close states).

We really need a parliamentary form of government as you have throughout europe, where 3rd parties thrive and are included in ruling coalitions.
September 07, 2008 | url

taoless said:

0
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it is still barack obama's policy to pull american combat troops out of iraq within 16-18 months of his taking the oath of office, right?

that's also the position of the duly-elected sovereign government of iraq, right?

it is also still the case that the only person, including president bush, who opposes that redeployment is john mccain, right?

just checking. enjoy your therapy, everyone.
September 07, 2008

Chris Floyd said:

64
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And while we are enjoying our therapy, perhaps you will give us a precise definition of the "combat troops" that Barack Obama (and the American-imposed Maliki government) intend to withdraw within 16-18 months of his taking the oath of office, right? You can then tell us how leaving tens of thousands of American troops in Iraq (the exact number is always left unspecified) to "train" Iraqis, conduct "counterterrorism operations," and provide "force protection" -- troops that will be stationed in gargantuan bases -- will somehow constitute "ending the war in Iraq."

You can then proceed to tell us mental patients in what way Barack Obama's position actually differs from McCain's or Bush's -- both of whom also say they are eager to withdraw U.S. "combat troops" as soon as possible -- when all three men have declared that they will base their ultimate decision on "the facts on the ground" and on whether the Iraqis are ready to "stand up on their own," etc., etc.

Then perhaps you can give us a calculation as to how many American soldiers you think will be killed in the next few years of "training," "counterterrorism" and "force protection" -- and do let us know if you are planning to join this "residual force" of tens of thousands of troops (and tens of thousands of mercenaries) in a hostile, occupied land. If you think it is such a good idea, I suggest you try it on for size yourself.

I make no mention of the number of innocent Iraqis who will be killed due to the exacerbation of a continued American armed presence (and "non-permanent" permanent bases) in Iraq -- because I assume anyone that anyone who supports a policy of a continuing, massive, armed American presence in Iraq, "residual" or otherwise, could not give a damn about that.
September 07, 2008

kat1park said:

0
No way, No how, No McCain, End the WAR!
Not true. Obama has always said putting more troops in would curb the violence. That's common sense. But he also says that the surge was about more than just curbing the violence. The troop increase,now being called the surge, did not accomplish what the Bush administration said it would. There has been so political reconciliation in IRAQ and we can't stay there spending billions of dollars that we've borrowed from China waiting for IRAQ to decide that they want a unified government. We will weaken our government as other governments such as China and Russia continue to get stronger. We cannot stay in IRAQ PERIOD!
September 07, 2008

kat1park said:

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oops, the word is no, not so. typo there
September 07, 2008

Michael Hureaux said:

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Exactly, DBachMozart. That's the kind of process I'm talking about. It's time to let the "democrats" go the way of the Whigs, through a concentrated, deliberate effort to build and maintain a thirdparty presence, whatever it costs the "democrats".

This Beethoven "minuet in G" I'm working on the violin sounds less like a six year old on the recorder every day. Maybe after another six months' polish? Peace.
September 08, 2008

John Caruso said:

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I also had some comments on the disgusting game of footsie Obama played with O'Reilly, here. For anyone who doesn't feel like following the link:

It's worth noting that in Obama's lexicon—as tailored to the needs of his grasping presidential ambitions—"taking responsibility" apparently doesn't include trying to evict the foreign army occupying your country, so that you can manage your own affairs.

Also, you didn't include that portion of the transcript, but regarding his and O'Reilly's agreement that the Iraqis should be reimbursing us out of the "$79 billion surplus": as we all know, the Iraqis have been demanding that the US set a timetable for withdrawal, and the US has been adamant in its resistance. So Obama is calling for the Iraqis to pay for the very thing he knows they're trying to force the US to stop doing.

I'd love to take a stab at describing the difference between Obama's and McCain's positions on Iraq now, if only I had a scanning electron microscope powerful enough to detect it.
September 08, 2008 | url

Gridlock said:

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JC; Obama goes on about "withdrawing combat troops" (ignoring the residual force, Mercs, OTH-forces etc) whereas John Sidney McCain more often mentions "leaving Iraqi soil" (ignoring the 63 or so non-Iraqi-soil garrisons).

Glad to be of service :)
September 08, 2008

blue ox babe said:

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I'd love to take a stab at describing the difference between Obama's and McCain's positions on Iraq now, if only I had a scanning electron microscope powerful enough to detect it.


Well-said, John Caruso!
September 08, 2008

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Last Updated on Friday, 05 September 2008 18:19