In the light of this:

Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and the Officers Would Take Care of Us" (Dahr Jamail, Truthout.org)

and this:

Support the Troops? (John Caruso, A Tiny Revolution)

and this:

Tears of Rage, Tears of Grief: Mass Death Returns to Ishaqi (Empire Burlesque)

and this:

Dead Souls: The Pentagon Plan to Create Remorseless Warfighters (Empire Burlesque)

is there anything really suprising about this? (From Monday's New York Times):

U.S. Troops Fire on Afghan Bus, Killing at Least 5 Civilians

American troops raked a large passenger bus with gunfire near the southern city of Kandahar on Monday morning, killing as many as five civilians and wounding 18, Afghan authorities and survivors said....

One of the bus passengers and a man who identified himself as the driver said that an American convoy about 70 yards ahead of the bus opened fire as the bus began to pull to the side of the road to allow another military convoy traveling behind to pass. The two convoys and the bus were on the main highway in Sanzari, about 15 miles west of Kandahar city. All of the windows on one side of the bus were shot out ...

If the Afghan government’s casualty toll is correct, it would suggest that troops fired scores or even hundreds of rounds. It was not clear why such a large fusillade would have been directed at a passenger bus....

Actually, it is very clear why these troops would have decided to "light up" a bus crammed with civilians that was pulling subserviently off the road to let even more of the occupier's military muscle barrel through their invaded homeland. It's because for generations, the Pentagon has been employing every mind-bending technique it can find to turn human beings into killing machines.

And oddly enough, the impetus for this massive, long-term "engineering of human souls" was ... the greatest feat of arms in American history: victory in World War II. As I noted in the Moscow Times, way back in 2004:

America calls its soldiers who fought in World War II "the greatest generation." They are hymned by Hollywood, celebrated by publishers and politicians, hailed at every turn....Yet despite the vast tonnage of celluloid and printer's ink devoted to their praise, what is perhaps the truest, highest measure of their worth has been almost universally neglected. And what is this hidden glory, which does more honor to the people of the United States than every single military action ordered by their corruption-riddled leaders during the past fifty years? It's the fact that in the midst of history's most vicious, all-devouring, inhuman war, only about 15 percent of American soldiers on the battlefield actually tried to kill anyone.

In-depth studies by the U.S. Army after WWII showed that between 80 to 85 percent of the greatest generation never fired their weapons at an exposed enemy in combat, as military psychologist Lt. Colonel Dave Grossman reports. Many times they had the chance, but could not bring themselves to do it. They either withheld their fire altogether or else shot into the air, to the side, anywhere but at the fellow human beings – their blood kin in biology, mind and mortality – facing them across the line. This reticence is even more remarkable given the incessant demonization of the enemy by the top brass, especially in the Pacific, where the Japanese – soldiers and civilians – were routinely portrayed by military propaganda as simian, sub-human creatures fit only for extermination.

Yet even with official license given to the most virulent prejudice .. even with all the moral chaos endemic to warfare, American soldiers, as a whole, killed only with the greatest reluctance, in the direst extremity. These were not "warriors," bloodthirsty automatons with stripped-down brains and cauterized souls, slavering in Pavlovian fury at the bell-clap of command. No, they were real men, willing, as Grossman notes, to stand up for a cause, even die for it, but not willing, in the end, to transgress the natural law (implanted by God or evolution, take your pick) that says: Do not kill your own kind – and every person of every race and nation is your own kind ...

But far from celebrating this example of genuine glory, the military brass were horrified at the low "firing rates" and anemic "kill ratios" of American soldiery. They immediately set about trying to break the next generation of recruits of their natural resistance to slaughtering their own kind. Incorporating the latest techniques for psychological manipulation, new training programs were designed to brutalize the mind and habituate soldiers to the idea of killing automatically, by reflex, "at the bell-clap of command," without the intervention of any of those inefficient scruples displayed by their illustrious predecessors.

And it worked. The dehumanization process led to a steady rise in firing rates for U.S. soldiers during subsequent conflicts. In the Korean War, 55 percent were ready to pump hot lead into enemy flesh. And by the time the greatest generation's own children took the field, in Vietnam, the willingness to slaughter was almost total: 95 percent of combat troops there fired with the intent to kill.

And today in occupied Iraq, the brutalizing beat goes on. "Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, it's like it pounds in my brain," a U.S. soldier told the Los Angeles Times last week. Another shrugged at the sight of freshly slaughtered bodies. "It doesn't bother me at all," he said. "I'm a warrior. My soldiers, they are all warriors. They have no problems. There's no place in this Army for men who aren't warriors." Said a third: "We talk about killing all the time. I never used to be this way…but it's like I can't stop. I'm worried what I'll be like when I get home."

Yet strangely enough, this new model army, imbued with eager "warrior spirit," has not produced the kind of lasting victories won by the reluctant fifteen-percenters of yore. It was stalemated in Korea, defeated in Vietnam, chased out of Lebanon and Somalia, balked in Afghanistan (where 40,000 Taliban troops slipped away to fight again and drug-dealing warlords rule the countryside), while its two excursions into Iraq have ended first in irresolution (with "worse-than-Hitler" Saddam still on his throne) and now in bloody quagmire.

Could it be that the systematic degradation of natural morality and common human feeling – especially in the service of dubious ends – is not actually the best way to achieve national greatness?

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philip said:

... Fabulous article Chris! Although i missed that article in 2004, this is exactly what i keep telling people who insist on supporting the troops. Anyone who has not been there and done that just don't understand this. The all american boy next door has been turned into something ordinary americans don't know about, and cannot even dream of. From day one the "cheap civilian horseshit" is washed out of them, and a new mindset is begun. Weakness or hesitancy is not acceptable, violence is. Even among recruits fighting is highly encouraged, whereas settling disputes peacefully is the fastest way to beating from the DI's. I cannot speak for every service or even all of the marine corps. I can only speak from my personal experience. Beatings happened daily and violence became the norm. They made it very clear our only purpose in live was to kill people.

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April 12, 2010
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john kelley said:

	... "Three Italian aid workers have been arrested in southern Afghanistan (Lashkar Gah, Helmand)following the discovery of explosives at an Italian-run hospital." (PressTV) Smells like another set-up...get those civilian doctors(witnesses) out of the way and get down to some wholesale slaughter.
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April 12, 2010
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James Ruhnke said:

You Got it Right and You Got it Wrong.... I'm one of those guys who was very hesitant to pull a trigger. What I actually saw in Vietnam had nothing to do with training or the military "mindset" though. We all went thru the same training and I have nothing but praise for the D.I.'s that trained us. Many a day would end with me thanking those guys for putting me through the difficult training. I was able to do things that beforehand I did not think possible and it surely saved my life and many others. Where you should be looking, I think, is the movie industry. Pre WWII pictures, as I recall, were full of high-minded virtues in a fighting man. You can use examples such as "Gunga Din" or "They Died With Their Boots On" as two examples. But, by contrast, the films over the past 50 years are mostly mindless violence with the hero as the guy who kills the mostest. Add to that the video games and regular programming and THERE you can find the "mindset" you are looking for. I don't know if you have been in the military or not...I suspect not...but, anyway, you are close to the target with a near-miss. After all, someone is responsible for these latest violence laden entertainments and I suspect it is no accident.

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April 12, 2010
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martin luther blissett said:

	warriors in the eyes of whom? one day maybe we shall see how these warriors size up against the warriors of Shambhala...
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April 12, 2010
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Hopey McChange said:

THIS IS HOW EMPIRES ACT Look, the USA has been an Imperial experiment from the beginning. It was not lost upon the "founders" the natural fortress that North America represents - all empires are necessarily based on geographical realty, there's no way around it - and how it could be exploited to best advantage. First by stealing millions of free Africans and placing them in bondage; second, by initiating a False Flag against Mexico and STEALING California, New Mexico, Texas, Nevada, Arizona, and Oregon from Mexico; third by ensuring, through economic dominance, that both Canada and what remained of Mexico were constituted of pliant regimes. It has ALWAYS been a Continuous war for Empire's sake. The motives are irrelevant: race, religion, etc, are merely excuses implanted into the gullible uneducated masses - And the "educated" masses as well! - as "moral" justifications and rationalizations. But behind all that is the "invisible hand" of Capitalism, namely, the BANKERS, who, since that late 1600's have funded and instigated Every Single War within their (indebted) domain to further their Own Interests: their "corporate takeover" of governments, of peoples, of religions, of Thought and free will itself. These bankers are, and have been since the time they bailed out the Roman Empire when it had (just like the USA today) gone to unimaginable profligate excess, the Demise of ALL "western" Empires. Killing is just another word for Zionist banking interests. Until that basic reality permeates the public discourse, we are doomed as a species.

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April 12, 2010
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Chris Floyd said:

	... How comforting it must be to have reduced all of human history and all of human behavior to a single point of reference: "Zionist banking interests." And so original too. I reckon us good old goys would never have harmed a single fly anywhere in the world without them wily Hebrews egging us on. Bless our pure little hearts.
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April 12, 2010
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MoT said:

Just a thought Perhaps, in the end, the purpose isn't simply to increase "kill ratios" on brown folk but inculcate and embed the very mentality, or psychosis, necessary to bring about other "wars" on the home front? The "WAR" on drugs... the rampant incarceration of millions, the ever increasing militarization of the police where the public is viewed as "the enemy", calls for national ID to further track and observe the chattel citizenry in order to identify and stamp out dissent? They create the monsters they later NEED to destroy using the self these same monsters to do the destroying. You couldn't ask Hollywood to write a better script but I'm getting the feeling its already been written and we're but playing our parts.

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April 12, 2010
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Hopey McChange said:

Hello Chris, Clearly "goyim" are not "pure". How you inferred that is a mystery. But can you deny who benefits, in the "invisible hand" philosophy - religion - currently in place? Can you deny that the "greatest empire in the history of the world" takes it's marching orders from a tiny psychotic rogue apartheid "state"? Can you deny that most of international banking, and most of the US banking/Wall Street system honchos are Geithner, Bernanke, Blankfein, Dimon...that most of the neo-Conservative "movement" are dual citizens Kristol, Abrams, Feith, Emmanuel....I could name a thousand more in Treasury and the State Department, but do I really need to bother??? You, me, and everyone else here knows who they are. Where are the equally representative numbers of American Muslims, American Russians, American Macedonians, American Serbs, American French, etc, in the power domain - all of which far surpass the aforementioned class in numbers? Your comment implies that I am somehow racist. Nothing, absofuckinglutely NOTHING could be further from the truth. I am merely pointing out Obvious facts, exploited by a psychotic minority in furtherance of a psychotic religious extremism that is at the center of fully one half of the American population (Christian Zionism, bible-thumpers), and from whose agenda they are loath to stray. I find your comment condescending and ill-conceived, because I know for a fact that your Not ill-informed.

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April 12, 2010
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derekmann said:

Surprised? That the NYT would actually identify the shooters as Americans? I was. Most every other outlet is using the old "NATO troops" dodge, as they have done before. No one, least of all Obama, seems to have even a semi-coherent rationale for this debacle; the latest seems to be "we don't quit". Unfortunately, I am not the least bit surprised by the latest murders over there, look at the situation the soldiers are put in; trying to control a population on their home turf. This is not to make any kind of excuse for murder, like cops, the troops know the score before they take the job, and contrary to popular belief they can refuse orders.... The kill, kill, kill mentality does not suit the environment of occupation, it may be fine for pitched battles, but not for crowd control. None of what I am saying here is to take anything away from the point, as a country, we seem to be particularly bloodthirsty. We Americans are casually violent, I believe it to be a function of the commodification of human beings due to Capitalism; when people are treated as "assets" which are disposable, it seeps into every aspect of the culture. When you know you are expendable, how much more worthless do you consider other peoples lives? Pretty low it would seem, this is the American way.

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April 12, 2010
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philip said:

... Well for sure i am no scholar, and would never dream to debate among the very intelligent and well read people here. but Hopey does make some good points. He did try to keep it short while still getting across the goals of empire. And the true rulers have always been the capitalists who control our banking system. Andrew Jackson knew full well the danger of a central bank controlled by private interests. Another good book i learned a lot from on how we came to be, is "Dark bargain" by Lawrence Goldstone. Our constitution was not meant to free us but more to insure the continued power of the capitalists.

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April 12, 2010
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Greg Johnson said:

Gee Chris.... What's up with all these people defending the military status quo??? Something is out of sink here--not you. Some old lady just went beserk at me at the corner store for saying you can't trust what the gov't says now adays. If these "intellectuals" would do some reading--even blogs in addition to yours, like denningers, durdans, Yves Smiths they might begin to learn something that they missed from formal education--or common sense.

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April 12, 2010
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Chris Floyd said:

... Re "invisible hands," I think you mistake the errand boys, the clerks, the factotums, the facilitators, the courtiers, for the powers that be. I've expressed my views on this many times, such as here: http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/3/797-asses-bearing-gold-of-neo-cons-and-nabobs.html And here: http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/3-articles/1572-dogs-of-war-hijacking-national-policy.html

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April 12, 2010
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Hopey McChange said:

FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH: "“Outside the land of Israel, there can be no doubt that Jews, faithful to the covenant between God and Abraham, are to stand apart from the nation in which they live.” Eliot Abrams, Faith or Fear: How Jews Can Survive in a Christian America At the risk of being labeled "anti-Semitic" - itself a COMPLETE FUCKING BASTARDIZATION of the terms since Semitic is exactly what the current occupiers of Palestine are NOT (they are white Khazars of Asiatic descent and have ZERO relationship to historical Jews - of which the very few remaining happen to live in IRAN, and they have COMPLETE and UNFETTERED freedom in IRAN, and they have ZERO desire to Leave Iran) - this Messianic "religion" - itself borrowed (stolen) WHOLESALE from Egyptian and Zoroastrian cult/mythology, has proven itself very useful in the subjugation, by the elite powers, landowners, wealthy, of the uneducated classes (i.e. most of the planet). Even unto today, this despotic and absofuckinglutley absurd system of superiority, of pathologically-based exceptional-ism has pervaded our culture of greed disguised in terms of a "missionary" "Christian" "ethical "democratizing" and race superiority - based on a STOLEN and wholly ridiculous Egyptian/Zoroastrian sun-cult - based on worshiping POWER: i.e Killing the poor hapless bastards next door who don't happen to share your demented idea of "good". Rome, not that you will ever see it on the "History" Channel or ever read in your government approved "history" books, was a PSYCHOTIC state of eternal VIOLENCE, insulated by a "popular" culturally and morally bankrupt backdrop of Ignorance. Just like today. One need only observe the simian antics of CNN for an hour to realize just how inconcievably far this sad state of affairs has sunk. Retribution/justice is not even in the cards. As a society the USA has exceeded all normal parameters that would typically define a "civilized" culture. Internal "hey wait a minute! What the fuck is gong on???" moments have been relegated to "conspiracy theorists" and "un-American activity" best dealt with by Fatherland Security operatives, CIA/JSOC hitmen acting under the imperial imperative of an Imperial "executive" - who himself is only answerable to the vermin who "allow" the PEOPLE to BORROW their OWN money under the rubrick of an "accepted" Capitilist system that is FAULTLESS and "invisible".

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April 12, 2010
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Greg Johnson said:

Yes, but.... these people are American citizens....those who vote, support and validate those in "control." I live in Topeka, Ks, in a little area, known as "Oakland." I moved here from California about 6 months ago. I am amazed at the ignorance, intellectual avoidance, and insular self-support which exists. I am not stupid, with a doctorate from a major University. I have just come to believe that those around me are unable to deal with what is going on, are scared, do not know what to do, see no options; they also have all their sons/daughters in the US military, because there is no where else where they can make a living--so they support them. I am sure that the military knows/calculate this.

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April 12, 2010
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Sean O'Neil said:

Stand down, Hopey. Hopey gets no salute today. You can't reduce it all to "Zionist banking interests" no matter how bigoted you might be, if you pay attention to facts. 1) Not all bankers are Zionist. 2) Bankers aren't the only people profiting off militarism, though they are a big segment of the profiteering class. 3) Zionism is about a lot more than banking, or militarism. It also involves a twist on a fundamentalist view of Judaism. And Judaism is about way more than banking or war. Ultimately, accusations that this is all about "Zionist banking interests" are nothing but mistaken perception, and the broad-brush nature of the accusation has the stench of bigotry. Hopey McChange made some good posts the other day, but today, in this thread, Hopey looks the ill-informed, bigoted fool. Looks like another person trying to discredit Chris Floyd... ingratiate self, gain trust, then spring the lies. It's a bit disappointing to watch. And that's putting it kindly. Which suggests to me Chris is hitting all the right notes.

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April 12, 2010
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Hopey McChange said:

	Sean, wrong. Read my previous post. Nothing more that I can say that would deter you from your preconceptions.
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April 12, 2010
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Sean O'Neil said:

... Key to the bigotry = code word "khazar," a term tossed at anyone who points out that there's a big difference between Jews and Israel, between Jews and Israeli governmental policy, between Judaism and Zionism, or any other distinction made where the bigot wants to lump everything together under the evil banner of Zionism. Yep, Hopey's another bigot working the psy-op. I'd guess Hopey wandered over here from Information Clearing House, where there's a whole lot of Zionist-blanket-blaming going on all the time. The code-word "khazar" is used liberally over at ICH. I've had it thrown at me many times. MANY times, before I realized that comment threads at ICH are polluted with bigots of that stripe. Pity.

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April 12, 2010
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Greg Johnson said:

This is not a Zionist issue... But you have to take this down to the local, community level. In Topeka, Ks., the average income is $23000; the average family income is $33,000. These people are trying to maintain their standard of living in general; their sons/daughters are not bright enough to go to University or State schools, there are no jobs, because they have all been move to south America or China, so they enter the military; their family support them--as they should. The military capitalize on this. The sons/daughters are ripe for indoctrination. Ergo--the video we have all seen. I do not know how to deal with this. I do know, the one Democratic congressman in Kansas seems to adore Obama (supporting his Health Care program--out of all Kansas Reps) and certainly does not represent those in my little area of Oakland. Is where I am living a microcosm of America? If so, perhaps you 'all should address it. Zion problems, at this point in America's crises, be dammed.

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April 12, 2010
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Greg Johnson said:

	So, all you brilliants deal with this (above)..... Let's take this to the fundamental level, rather than all of your ranting about zionists, etc. What can basic, down home, country singing America--like in Topeka, do to deal with this issue?? who to vote for? who to write? who to talk to? which group to join? Tell Me. Or shut up.
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April 12, 2010
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Greg Johnson said:

	So, Chris......... Where are all these feckless women and cockless dwebs when it comes down to the real answers?? Where are you?? What are your answers?? Come on out, you all, tell this old Topeka guy how to resolve this issue? Or, can we?
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April 12, 2010
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Greg Johnson said:

	So, I am throwning my rag down, bud... How do we deal with this?? Where are you now?? Hiding because you do't have the answers? Taking your little cadre abreast? Come up with something. It is easy to put your shit out here. Now do something with it.
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April 12, 2010
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Greg Johnson said:

	Where are you Chris? Are you hiding your answers? Do you have any? Are you refining some sentimental song? What is going on with you? I, and other, I am sure, am waiting for some type of answer....Are you a phoney? Are you using this to get commercial popularity? (probably)
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April 12, 2010
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john kelley said:

... "The rest of their lives In San Ber'dino Gonna spend the rest of their lives In San Ber'dino Gonna spend the rest of their lives Down in San Ber'dino Come on with me Come on with me Come on with me Down in San Ber'dino Just 60 miles, 60 miles Down the San Ber'dino freeway They got some dark green air An' you can choke all day That's right! Gonna spend the rest of their lives Rest of their lives Rest of their lives" (Frank Zappa)

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April 12, 2010
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Chris Floyd said:

For Little Tizzy from Topeka "Tell me which group to join"??? Good god! Are you saying "old Topeka guys" are too stupid to think for themselves? You want somebody to spoon-feed you? Holey moley, the good ole country-singing men and women from my home ground don't ask people to tell them what to think and who to vote for. Maybe folks are a bit more -- how to put it? -- feckless and cockless out there in Topeka. I didn't get that impression during my times in Topeka, but maybe things have changed. Although some of your spewing is, as they say, too clever to be understood -- what the hell does "taking your little cadre abreast" mean? -- I don't know what "real answers" you are looking for. I talk about answers here all the time: don't support militarists, of whatever stripe. Don't support the empire. Educate yourself on the facts -- don't just sit back with a shit-eating grin and say, "Ah'm jes' a good ole boy; y'all tell me what to do." I know lots of "country-listening" people without college educations, without any money, living on the margins, who read and dig and find out the mountain of facts out there about the militarist empire and what it really does. And they speak out about it. They don't hide behind some proudly proclaimed ignorance that actually insults the very "common people" it purports to represent. Who told you that you have to be ignorant? Who told you that someone else has to tell you what to do? Who told you that you can't dig and learn and think and speak for yourself? "It is easy to put your shit out here." Then why don't you do it yourself, "bud"? But hey, if you want me to "throw my rag down" and "come up with something," then below you'll find a little something you can chew on -- if you're not too feckless and cockless to actually read something and think about it on your own, that is. I wrote this a few weeks ago. So if you want me to tell you what to do, then go out and find someone who adheres as closely as possible to the agenda outlined here, and support them. Or if you can't find anyone like that, "bud," then go out and preach it yourself. http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/1934-future-shock-a-better-world-beyond-the-imperium.html And if you don't like this program, then come up with one on your own. Or go search some other website -- where you can start spewing insults when someone doesn't immediately stick a pacifier in your bawling mouth and tell you what to think and what to do.

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April 12, 2010
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Greg Johnson said:

	Yep, John.... Ain't that the truth. Ain't these phoney bloggers just feeding in to this. Know well San Ber-dino.....
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April 12, 2010
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Greg Johnson said:

Well, Chris.... It is great that you spent a page and 1/2 criticizing me for asking you what to do about the situation. You and some "Tizzi" which just insults women, especially intelligent ones, does nothing. You do nothing but criticize me: do you address my questions? do you answer my confrontations? do you help the people of Topeka? No. You just propagate your site, to promote yourself: you have hit upon a small population to further your goals; but, the bigger question, which you have not answered, and cannot answered (or we would have some leadership) is still up in the air. How do we resolve the terrible problem with which we are confronted with? We all know what it is. Go sell some pictures, dude.

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April 12, 2010
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Hopey McChange said:

Interesting how the lines are so quickly drawn... ...in an article criticizing how AIPAC has become an idespensible arm of US government, ALL of you would be singing the same tune. But the minute someone even REMOTELY can be construed as "anti-semitic", most of you are near APOPLECTIC in your telegraphed and predictable programmed responses. WTF is up with that? Sorry, homies, but you either live in the world that actually EXISTS, or you don't. You don't get to pick and choose.

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April 12, 2010
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Chris Floyd said:

... You say: "Come out and tell me your answers, bud." So I tell you what my answers are. Is that not "answering your confrontations"? And if, as you say, you want to know what MY answers are, then I have to point you to what MY answers are, don't I? How is it "propagating my site," or "promoting myself," by linking -- in a direct response to your request -- to an old blog post way down in a comment thread? Should I have linked to someone ELSE'S blog to give you MY answers? I believe that ending the empire will help the "people of Topeka" and everyone else, in many different ways -- ways which are ennumerated in the post. I doubt very seriously that you read it. You object to being "insulted" -- after spewing insults all over me, in a series of frenzied messages, demanding -- yes, like an infant -- that you be answered immediately ... and that the answer be exactly what you want it to be. Well, what can I say? I'm sorry I hurt your feelings -- or put you in a tizzy. I hope you'll get over it soon.

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April 12, 2010
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Greg Johnson said:

Well, Hoppey... Whatever you are thinking, I guess you are right. However, I still don't know what out host is talking about? Perhaps a little "gunge" is gettin in the way? His last paragraph is a little frantic, and he never hurt my feelings. Was I frenzied? Unfortunatelly, because someone can take a couple of pictures, I do not throw myself at their feet and or bestow huzzahs. Honestly, pressing a button on a camera just does not get plaudits with me. But, Intelligent and cogent evaluation, strident displicine of the problem, and honest comment (without commercial intent) does make a lot of difference.

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April 12, 2010
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Chris Floyd said:

... Re lines being drawn: A claim that a political lobby has inordinate sway over government policy is a statement that can be tested against observable fact. That is why you will find broad agreement among those not wearing political or ideological blinders that AIPAC exercises inordinate sway over government policy. However, a claim that an "invisible hand" of Zionist bankers -- who possess the magical superpower of stripping people of their own free will -- has been behind every single war going back to the Roman Empire is, by definition, not an observable fact. One cannot see the invisible, nor rationally analyze the magical, the supernatural, which, again by definition, places itself outside the realm of the natural, observable, testable world. Magical claims are faith statements, not facts. Therefore, in dealing with claims about invisible hands and magical superpowers, one tends to find less ready agreement.

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April 12, 2010
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Harpfool said:

	Must be something in the air... Spring has sprung, and a shitload of weird dudes seem to have discovered this site... It always used to be so quiet around this burg (well, with a few exceptions...)
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April 12, 2010
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Chris Floyd said:

One last comment to Topeka Just as an aside, what is all this about "taking pictures"? I don't take pictures, except photos for the family album, which I don't post and certainly don't sell commercially. Are you confusing me with the Guardian photographer named Chris Floyd? As for "frenzied," I'd say five messages in the space of a few hours, ranting about cockless, feckless people putting out "shit" and "hiding" from you could reasonably be described as "frenzied." Then again, what do I know? I'm too whacked out on "gunge" -- "a thick, gooey, runny substance similar in consistency to paint."

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April 12, 2010
Votes: +2

Sean O'Neil said:

... Hopey spurts: "Sean, wrong. Read my previous post. Nothing more that I can say that would deter you from your preconceptions." I did read your "previous post." I think it's amusing how you accuse me of not doing so. As to my "preconceptions," I'm the only one who would know what they are. You wouldn't know, as you'd have no way of knowing. You're a very ill-tempered person today, Hopey. Your psy-op isn't going well, so you're all a-bluster. In a week, people will come back to this thread and see what you're up to, and it won't reflect well on you. But it's your call, keep working that bizarre broad-brush blaming if you wish. Your call, putting your reputation and your believability at stake. +++++++++++++++++++ The 1-2 shadow-boxing missed punches thrown by Greg Johnson and Hopey McChange don't come off as well as either person seems to think. After reading them down to the point whree I'm making this post, all I see is hysteria. It's a lot like the thread a few days ago with the posting kitty-cat, "Charles Utwater II", who came here just to try to discredit Chris Floyd. It's just sad.

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April 12, 2010
Votes: +1

scott douglas said:

... G. Johnson has a doctorate from a major university...? ha-ha. I fondly remember the day that I decided that I didn't want to become an authorized, lettered idiot...rough decision, frankly. And, at the time, a lot of my family lived in Topeka, Emporia (ha!), and Burlington. Ya know, G., Strawn is gone? It's called "New Strawn" now, since the ZIONIST builded them a EARTH-dam and drownded out the OLD Strawn! They'z takin ATOMS outta the AIR and makin 'Lectricity with it down there (UN-NATURAL!) and all as an excuse to drownd the OLD GOOD ANGLO STRAWN! You better get-on and check out the all the websites about all that! It's a Serious Shame and a Stain on the Nation, Bud!... Land O'Goshen! I'm all sweaty! What were we talking about...? Oh, them ZIONIST man-IP-u-LAT-ors! really gets my GOAT! Why I hang around these Zioninstic Gloaters 'round here; Brother, it is beyond me!

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April 12, 2010
Votes: +0

Greg Johnson said:

Discredit???? Well, all I asked is that you addressed my concerns; but, alas, you were unable to do that. I have no problem leaving your site for that of durden, denninger and others. But, you and your little group, who are not alone in the distain of our American forces or military positions, need not think that you can take the moral high road in this regard. Hopefully, others with the same perspective will have a more mature and higher outlook than you and your tweeks.

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April 12, 2010
Votes: -1

Chris Floyd said:

... Again, and for the last time: You asked me to give you my answers for a solution to our political problems. I gave you a post that outlined some of my thoughts on the matter. You asked; I replied. If you didn't like the answers, if you thought they were inadequate, if they weren't what you wanted to hear, that's one thing. But to keep reiterating that your "concerns weren't addressed," is not just mistaken, it is dishonest. But I will give you credit for, at the very end, finally making your own position clear: you abhor anyone who criticizes "our American forces or military positions." The briefest acquaintance with this website would have told you that you would not find any "answers" congenial to your already-held position in my writing. Therefore, you were either deliberately just stirring up shit (and why not? It's a free country; I have no objection to shit being stirred for no good purpose, if someone wants to waste their time that way), or else you really are as willfully ignorant as you pretend to be. In any case, all the best to you, and may good fortune smile on your endeavors.

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April 12, 2010
Votes: +0

Mike Smith said:

This thread... Chris, nice post as usual. This thread is all over the map. Lots of anger, hostility even. But, to respond to your post: I lived in Europe for 15 years and only returned to the USA a year and a half ago. I think the most visible change that has struck me is the level of confrontation in society. Divided and angry political parties and partisans. Reality TV shows that pit people against each other as a blood sport. A military that has lost its way and with repeated deployments in wars that no one understands is creating a generation of broken soldiers. We didn't seem to get a kinder, gentler society over the past decade or two. Everyone seems lost and pissed off. It seems to me a symptom of social breakdown. At a larger scale, maybe we are indeed witnessing what happens when an empire starts to unwind. Americans are a good and generous people. It is my hope that things will turn around, but I fear a bit more unwinding will have to take place before people start pulling together again.

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April 12, 2010
Votes: +0

Hopey McChange said:

I'm not trying to "discredit" anyone... ...even a cursory reading of my posts wouldn't lead one to believe that - at least no one who is not Predisposed to believe that. Or who fashions themselves a better arbiter of what I Am Saying than Myself. As seems to be the case thus far. Chris, why are Broad Strokes APPROPRIATE when dealing with the clearly Zionist policies of Eretz Expansionist Apartheid Israel (Zionist Occupied Palestine), AIPAC, JINSA, AEI, and the rest of the bootlicking Zionist "think tanks" that Direct US policy, but discussion of the absurdly predominant role of same in banking, Wall Street, media ownership, et al, is somehow "anti-semitic"? Please, do me a favour, show me a list of Treasury, Judicial, Justice, State Department, Wall Street, major Media Ownership and world-wide Banker elites that is NOT predominantly Jewish and/or Zionist? Quite an accomplishment for ONE TENTH of ONE PERCENT of the world's population, don't you think? If THAT is "anti-semitism" then I join the ranks of such Nazi's and "anti-semites" as Noam Chomsky, Norman Finlestein, and Stephen Lendman. Among many others. So what exactly is your point - beyond throwing dissenters under the bus of political correctness?

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April 12, 2010
Votes: +0

Phylter said:

Fuck Kansas And fuck Topeka. Who the fuck does Greg Johnson think he is coming in here and DEMANDING answers from Chris and the commentators, when Chris has the answers written EVERYWHERE on his blog. I guess Greg Johnson wants Cliff Notes because researching and reading is soooo tedious. America will go the way of ALL empires, it's a shame that China (those devious commies) handed the mighty US of A a triple A platinum credit card to pay for its imperialism, otherwise this godforsaken and blood soaked country would already have joined the graveyard of empires. Whatever you need to know, Greg Johnson, has already been written before, they're called "history books", they're about how other empires dealt with their collapse. And not ONE ends well.

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April 12, 2010
Votes: +1

Hopey McChange said:

in the end... ...we probably don't disagree on very much. Such is the nature of Debate in a FREE atmosphere. It's unfortunate that some people take things personal - and for NO reason. Where would this place be if every Foreign Minister and Ambassador took everything, however obnoxious (as is usually the case from US would-be overlords and their obscene pontifications) and overbearing they may be. I sure as fuck I could not do it: the moment Sir Obama The Anointed Holy Third Asshole of Potomac opened his fucking hole about missile "defense" I - if I were Putin - would have launched 6,000 warheads into the American heartland in a pre-emptory "defensive" first strike. And no one could blame me for it. In the end, that is exactly what is going to happen.

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April 12, 2010
Votes: -1

Grandma Jefferson, feckless female said:

The Rage of the Sheeple Is Terrible, but confused... ...as that intrepid commenter Johnson perfectly demonstrates in his endless quest for a Master to do his thinking and order his future actions. He's living in the heart of Dumbfuckistan, surrounded by ignorant fuckwits, is astonished to discover this,and "does not know how to deal with it", whatever that means. He then proceeds to "throw his rag down", and demand answers, addresses, phone numbers, organizations, for what is unclear. When supplied with answers to what can only be guessed he is asking, he claims he's not getting answers, and petulantly resorts to surreal ad hominem attacks on Chris Floyd and the members here, thereby betraying himself to be just another troll, here to start brainless shit. So, as balm to a soul sorely vexed, some answers of my own: 1) If being surrounded by brain-washed illiterates bothers you, get used to it. If you think you can "enlighten" or educate them, forget it. You don't have the intellectual chops for that. 2) Your Vichy-Whore congresspeople have phone numbers and local offices that you can call, or visit, whenever you like. Look them up, and good luck there. 3) Only three ways to "deal with it", assuming you mean the fascist empire under which we're expected to live and die: Organize a new political party and take over; lead your own revolt, and take over; or, find a good psychotherapist. Of course, were you sincere, you could actually take it upon yourself to find local groups, like the ACLU, Anti War groups, Pro Labor groups, Human Rights groups, etc., to hook up with, and work with people as alarmed as we are. Or is that too much effort? I myself think it's too late to stop the juggernaut as it reels over the cliff, so we're stuck "dealing with it" to the end. And who the hell are you to come in here, not knowing what anyone does outside of this blog to "deal with it", and open your loud mouth in condemnation of anyone? Since none of the "answers" provided suit you, what do YOU suggest? Oh wait, you don't know. Sorry.

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April 12, 2010
Votes: +7

Hopey McChange said:

Phylter, I wouldn't put too much faith in "history books". I cannot think of a more Unreliable source of knowledge. "He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future." Wherein lies the most DANGEROUS aspects of modern Capitalist society: that which SELLS, whether it be true or false, is WHAT IS SOLD. Everything I have ever said on this site, and others, boils down to that simple, yet unimaginably horrifying conclusion: COMPLETE DISSOCIATION FROM REALITY. One need only ask a joker on the street today - TRY IT YOURSELF - "did you know that one million Iraqi children died as a result of US sanctions and bombing since '93?" I bet you get a glazed over "thousand yard stare". In a NORMAL world - one where people have not been Programmed to ENJOY Death and the suffering of their fellow man - one would expect Horror. That would be MY reaction had I landed on this sorry rock from an alien world. "What the fuck is wrong with you people??? Why don't I just pull out my Vaporizer sidearm and be done with your sad fucking pathetic lot???" "What could possibly persuade me to spare your vindictive, evil fucking existence??? What have you to offer the universe besides your pestilence???" Good questions. I, for one, would not like to be Earth's ambassador to the Galaxy.

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April 12, 2010
Votes: +1

Phylter said:

	Greg Johnson, Readers Digest Version WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!! Takin' my marbles back to Topeka. Fuck youse guys!
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April 13, 2010
Votes: +1

Sheila Waller said:

	Dear Hopey... Somebody once innocently inquired of W.C. Fields, "Do you think there's intelligent life on other planets?", and Fields replied, "There damn well better be, because there's none on this one." If aliens ever land here, they'll take one look around, and nuke the place.
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April 13, 2010
Votes: +1

Phylter said:

	Hopey McChange Sorry Hopey, but history books are all we have, no "future books" to my knowledge, and, quoting from 1984, as good a depressing book as was ever written, and however true it rings today, doesn't count. However, I agree with the rest of what you said.
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April 13, 2010
Votes: +0

Hopey McChange said:

Phylter, all is not yet lost ...that which was is still remembered. The facts, whatever may come, will live in one form or another. It HAS come to that - a Fahrenheit 451 reality - I have already commited to memory several films and am working on the Dune series by Frank Herbert and several Philip K Dick novels. Of course I will never accomplish that, so I have determined that learning LANGUAGES is a better use of my efforts. So far I have a good comprehension of Spanish, French, Italian, Rusiian, at least a basic understanding of Japanese, a very crude introduction to Chinese (it's Supposed to be EASY, but it's NOT), along with my degrees in Latin, and Old and Middle English.

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April 13, 2010
Votes: +0

john kelley said:

	... 40 years wandering the wilderness for us tweeks!
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April 13, 2010
Votes: +0

Anonymous said:

Concerned . . . Chris, This is off-topic and I offer apologies for that, but have you visited Arthur Silber's blog recently? I stopped by just this morning and found a very dispirited and resigned piece. Unless I misunderstand him, his circumstances seem to have worsened and there was a troubling desperation in his writing. I know you've done much to support Arthur and have regularly encouraged others to do so. He claims to be ignoring email messages now, but I trust he would read and respond to one from you. Please excuse my meddling, but I found his last post truly worrying. All the best and don't let them doctorate-wieldin' Topekans get to you.

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April 13, 2010
Votes: +1

Sean O'Neil said:

	... Could "Anonymous" above be any stupider? One read of Silber's latest indicates it's precisely the opposite of what "Anonymous" says. Man, I love when Chris's blog gets infested by trolls. Really, it's the greatest.
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April 13, 2010
Votes: +0

Sean's Troll said:

... Hey, Sean. What the fuck is wrong with you? I'm that "stupid" anonymous poster. I wrote what I wrote and made my plea to Chris out of genuine concern for Arthur Silber's health and well-being. Not gifted with your searing insight, I seem to have totally mistaken the tone and intent of Arthur's last post. Did you, though, miss Arthur's message regarding emails he receives that are needlessly and pointlessly nasty? Besides, my comment/request was directed at Chris in lieu of an email message, who the fuck are you to intervene? I don't think Chris needs any fan-boys to watch his back.

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April 13, 2010
Votes: +1

Administrator said:

	And who can forget Isahaqi http://www.chris-floyd.com/isahaqi/
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April 13, 2010 | url
Votes: +0

Hopey McChange said:

	Parenti says it like it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AEiP1UGSro
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April 13, 2010
Votes: +0

Sean O'Neil said:

bitterness and meanness, projected! I"m not watching anyone's back. Did you even read Silber's entry? The whole aim of the entry was to dispel the frequent mistaken conclusion that he's a master of doomy gloomy outlooks, and the related conclusion that he is full of doom and gloom in his own life. The whole post refutes that, explicitly, several times. What the fuggles is wrong with YOU, troller? I'm just pointing out flaws in logic and reasoning. Chris can cover his own arse pretty well, as this thread shows very clearly.

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April 13, 2010
Votes: -2

scott douglas said:

... OKAY THEN! Back to basics, for a moment! Number One: There is a state called Israel and it is run by right-wing war-criminal Likudniks. This faction has an aggressive lobby in the US which is able to intimidate a lot of the legislators in the chambers of Congress. Most Jews of mixed or US citizenship are by far more liberal than this government, it's current ruling party or it's aims, open or covert. No one here thinks that the government of the client state of Israel runs the machinery of the Anglo-American Empire. No one here believes that a Jewish heritage automatically includes ANY individual in a vast Judaic conspiracy to rule the world through the machinery of the US government, financial sector, or media. If you really believe that, you can still hang out here and seek an education, but you are an idiot and a bigot and you won't be treated lightly for your views if you choose to express them. Number Two: A documented education means nothing to the Truth. If you want to memorize Dr. Johnson's Dictionary as a faux Homeric tribute to the world that never was, you are obviously an idiot - and you are wasting everyone's time posting here. Sorry, but true. OK. I feel better now. My 'New Strawn' thing was way too subtle for this infestation...

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April 13, 2010
Votes: +1

scott douglas said:

... Oh, Sorry: Number Three -- For years we have listened to the distraught visitor cry, "but what, then, are we to do!" as though this lost-puppy terror-reaction reflects negatively upon the validity of the wisdom offered here by the Writer, Chris. Chris has patiently attempted, through the years, to explain that an expanded awareness of the Truth of the situation -- as opposed to the desperate grasping after various modes of denial -- will lead to it's own appropriate course of action for each individual and that this is the only honest and holistic formula for addressing the facts before us. But he has also steadfastly laid down a few fundamentals upon which most of us agree - including the power of non-violent protest or reaction to aggression. And more recently, he has articulated a semi-public doctrine which might unite the disparate political elements opposed to the current course of the civilization without attempting to hash out all the social or economic details beloved of Ideologues: Bring America Home. Just shut down the Empire, first and foremost. We can all support that, regardless of our individual lunatic orientations. OK. Now I'm done. Thanks.

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April 13, 2010
Votes: +0